Oh yeah, and THIS happened…
16 July 2008
32 Comments
This week’s New Yorker magazine displays cartoon images of Sen. Barack Obama as a Muslim, his wife in fatigues and an American flag burning in the background. The magazine says ’satire’ is part of its business. But is that really the way it’s seen by the public? Is this really satire? Or is it a vile satire of vile satire?
Check out NPR’s Talk of the Nation podcast for a great discussion featuring guests such as the Pulitzer Prize winning cartoonist Art Speigelman and syndicated poitical cartooninst (and creator of Mother Goose and Grimm) Mike Peters.
What do you think? Does this image go too far? Or does it even matter because the folks who really believe that Obama is a Muslim will never read the New Yorker (or perhaps, read anything?) Discuss!
I agree with Speigelman in the NPR podcast that this is like a vaccination- you’re given a little dose of the disease in order to build your immunity to it and ward it off for good. I just worry about the reaction by folks out there who are still unable to apprehend and appreciate IRONY. Am I correct that irony died on 9-11?
I was an editorial cartoonist in high school and all through college (quit the business on 9-11, but am considering a return) and I think I get this cartoon, but I join the ranks of folks who think it probably does more harm than its intended good. It’s funny in that it’s over the top, but we’re already living in an over the top world, so is that enough to justify it? I don’t know.
This is very interesting to me because I think it demonstrates not a lack of visual literacy, but a lack of an ability by most to read images in the same way we read text with its shared associations, syntax,etc. Even those of us with an understanding of implicit meaning in visual things have difficulty believing that visual things can carry forth the authors intent as effectively as words can. Of course that is part of the power of the image- that multiple meanings can be brought into it.
I think that the audience who will REALLY get this image exist in the future. Today, so many people believe that Obama is a Muslim EVEN THOUGH we saw weeks and weeks of coverage over the thing with his minister and a church he had belonged to for years. If the inundation of stories like that cant convince people that their views (or those from ultra-conservatives) are wrong, something as subtle as irony certainly isnt.
But ultimately I think this is another case of progressives like me shooting ourselves in the foot. Why did the Obama campaign even mention this? I assume they were asked for a statement by the press, but god if this isnt playing right into the hands of those who WANT Americans to take this image literally. I love the NEw Yorker, my wife and I have subscribed for years, and I love this image and the irony involved. I just wish, with this election being SO FRACKING IMPORTANT the editor put this inside or buried it until later (like in December!).
I agree with the idea that the future audience will get this even more, but then, doesn’t it depend on the outcome of the election? If we fail to elect Barack, it will look one way. I think if we do indeed put him in the White House, then the irony will be easy.
Mark, have you listened to the podcast? They have an African American comedian and commentator on there (forgot his name) who says the same thing about how any response by the Obama camp would be playing into the hands of the folks who are Muslim-baiting him already. I did like Obama’s response- he basically said “I’ve seen worse.” But unfortunately he did not stop there and he went on for a while about free speech, yadda yadda. How the New Yorker has the right but wasn’t right, etc. I thought he should have just stopped at “I’ve seen worse.” But oh well.
It would be interesting to read where others weigh in…
I am very disturbed and disappointed in th New Yorker for this display. I agree with the comments above and don’t have much to add; just to say that the mass public is not going to take the time to interpret any ironies or contemplate satire. This picture will be seen on magazine racks and office tables across the country and will recieve (subliminal at LEAST) a destructive view of Obama - discouraging his chance of election. It was in poor taste of The New Yorker to publish this so close to November.
I’m all for free speech and what not but the image of the flag burning in a fire place troubles me more than the images of the Obamas.
I still think that some things should be sacred. Call me old school.
Thousands of Americans have died over that flag. Even if you believe or don’t believe in the wars they are fighting for what that flag stands for is ideal and sacred. Sacred being totally relative of course.
Of course I respect the flag and what it means, but in this image it is but one of several symbols (AK 47, portait of Bin Ladn, camo fatigues, the khafia, sandals, and the ‘pounds’ gesture they’re making) that make up a system of symbols that represent the sum total of every outlandish rumor about Barack Obama and his wife Michelle. Given the context, I’m certain the cartoonist (does anyone know the name? I think it’s Bobby Blitz(?), but I can’t tell) meant to stick every dumb paranoid idea about Obama into one image as a way of saying: This is ridiculous and so is anyone who believes any of it. But it apparently backfires in most peoples minds. This kind of thing may play in NY, but certainly not in Kansas City. And the media furor over it is further distorting things.
I get the symbolism and heard the editor describe why he decided to run the cover on NPR the other day but to me it’s the flag burning that gets me in the gut.
The rest of it is one slapstick joke. insert drum roll.
I can’t stand it when I see video footage of other countries burning the American flag. It just hurts. To see it done for ironies sake hurts the same.
I agree about the flag but didn’t Scalia say it was one of our freedoms? You know. To burn it. I could be wrong about that. I think its a pretty smart cover. Its making fun of idiots faux news sheeps without giving them anything to caress and spin. Its possible that someone is in fact sooo stupid to think that there is anything, ahem, factual about the cartoon. But not likely that it will change how any of them vote. So its a big F.U. to the ever popular America dumbass. Now people in Kansas City know about the new yorker anyway. Elitist leaves the room…
sticks head back in. I meant American Dumbass. http://www.wm.edu/news/?id=3486 on Scalia.
I agree with Tony (Scalia?) on the flag burning issue. I think it’s mostly a symbol. It is a smart cover and hey maybe I am an elitist because I think it’s too smart for the unironical American. I don’t think one has to be a dumbass to misconstrue the cover or to get the wrong idea from the debate. Not in the least. My poor little folks out in Iowa read the New Yorker and are more literate than most people I know, and I’m sure while they “get” the cover, they probably don’t think it’s that smart. If I’m the elitist, then tough. Everybody thinks they’re some kind of hero populist nowadays, but when you really break it down they’re really just another form of elitist.
Then don’t have to think its smart. They just have to get it. I strive to be a hero populist. And I fist bump. Total strangers sometimes. But only when they put it out there. Otherwise it would be hitting. I’m digging it more and more.
But maybe this image works on several levels. I see the irony,
but there are those who will see it as implying that an Obama
election victory will be a victory for the Muslim agenda.
And haven’t we all been brainwashed incessantly to hate and fear
and view the Muslim world as fanatically opposed to our country, our culture and our God given right to all that oil that belongs to us, but just happens to lie under their country’s soil?
It IS, one one level, an attempt to link Mr. Obama with forces that are openly committed fanatical enemies of our country.
It ain’t much a stretch to say that this will raise the boogeyman
in some minds…….
Funny someone is highlighting faux populism. On the web, it seems, everyone acts like a populist. Weter they are or not is beside the point. This cover seems to be counter all that. I hope this isn’t about raisng a real boogyman around ‘Bam, I would expect more from th New Yorker. As for the flag thing, yeh It’s a symbol but it’s one that holds a lot of meaning for a lot of folks. The cover is obviously beng disrespectful, bt is being so disrespectful it has to be a joke. Still, you would thik they’d be more subtle or, in my opinion Smarter than that at the New Yorker.
Agreed and sorry Tony I mean no disrespect. I wish I could be more populist. And I realize how my concern could be read as a lack of faith in the American intellect (see previous posts keyword: monster). I must object though that believing this is too smart is engaging in an elitist activity. I think the cover sails above average folks’ heads needlessly and ends up looking like the ugly publicity grab I think it is.
Paul Mooney is the comedian on the NPR interview. He is best known for not using the “N” word anymore and for trying to convince other comedians not to use it either.
I think I can be convinced to agree both ways about this cover, I just think they should have had a picture of Allah in the background.
I have to disagree with you guys about the flag. I know I’m in the minority on this one, and my opinion might be different if I had served in the military, but I’m tired of people saying that many have died for our flag. Many have died because rich white people have sent young men and women to fight for what usually amounts to nothing. Those soldiers in Iraq are not fighting for our freedom, they’re fighting because they couldn’t get health insurance or a decent job, so they had to join the military. I think we ease our own guilty consciences by fooling ourselves into thinking that there is something righteous about this war and other wars that came before.
I’m also tired of all the people saying we live in the best country in the world. How do these people know? My sister is hosting a student from Denmark and her country sounds a lot better than ours. And I don’t want to hear “if you don’t like then move”, we all know that type of sentiment doesn’t make any sense. Forced patriotism bugs me. It bugs me that my kids have to pledge allegiance to a flag every morning. It bugs me that I have to stand and cross my heart before every sporting event. Sure I don’t have to, but you try not standing at the next football game and see what kind of looks you get.
Anyway about the cover; nothing surprises me anymore, plus it’s the New Yorker - they love Obama. Right?
According to both political camps, there is a lot at stake in this election. My view is that GW has driven a stake up Americas….
But, that being said, as the election draws closer, the down and
dirty will escalate. You think that some mud has already been slung?
Keep watching, we are going to see the Mother of All SlimeFests
I guess I will be really bummed if I underestimate our peers and someone thinks this cartoon is anything beyond an illustration of our idiotness. But its sooo hard to take it seriously that even faux populist news has to explain it. Which might what bring protests? Boycotts of the new Yorker? Haha. Visit Denmark Kurt but live with us because its a duckin resort here. God bless obama. God bless stupid people. Yay new Yorker. I am sooo glad that they didn’t do a cartoon allah or muhammed. That would be harder to support. Just enough billshut to make me smile. Viva la fist bump
Dailyshow.com July 15th
I won’t argue with you Kurt. Maybe I’ve been programmed. I’m sure I have.
But I still want to believe in some sort of ideal that is America. I cringe when I see the flag being burnt by other countries.
The America I think of is the selfless one that helped win World War II. That’s the one I believe in. I think almost all the wars after that were mucked up for one reason or another. But we got WWII right. I’m hoping new leadership will correct some of these past mistakes but I’m sure it will take decades.
america is a racist blood thirsty country built with fear and hatred, this image is really the power of art and how it influences the masses, the balance is trying to shift and power is holding on.
Tony: I hope you’re right and I hope more folks get it than I think will. It makes me smile too, because it is so maniacal and over the top.
Byron: Yeah you’re right about WWII. You won’t forget I’m sure that as a nation we were very reluctantly dragged into the fight, at first. Before Pearl Harbor when FDR wanted to help Britain there was a huge anti-war movement in the USA. I think the main difference between that conflict and those since has to do with how that war changed our status from underdog to top dog. To win the war we were able to come together under a uniting force because it was plain as day what had to be done, and who our enemies were. The objectives were clear, we knew what had to be done. That was why the whole country actually fought WWII from housemoms to kids to average citizens. We were a people capable of sacrifice because the end goal demanded it. Consider that between 1941 and 1945 there were no domestic cars manufactured in the US at all. People rationed everything and conserved everything for the singular purpose of fighting the war. In today’s fight I’m not sure we’re at all capable of doing that. We have a fundamentally different brain. I think we could probably come together again under some unifying force, but it would have to be clear what we were doing and what was at stake. The what and the why of the Iraq war is still in question and the end goal is sketchy and depends on who you talk to. As a nation we’ve been lied to and manipulated into this questionable fight by our “leaders” who have evoked the nostalgic language and imagery of WWII in every war since. The flag is a key symbol, but it’s a symbol nonetheless. And I don’t think it stands for the same thing (in a lot of our minds) as it did to those guys on Iwo Jima hill.
http://www.ep.tc/intro-archive027.html
Amen. You and I are America too Morrison. I support our troops and our flag. It reminds me of my favorite t shirt. Andrew Jackson high school. “Loyalty before victory” on the front. And on the back it has a tiger bustin through a brick wall with “main street style” graffiti on it. Elitist out!
I think it’s great the the country came together to fight the “people’s war”, but I think it’s good to know all the facts. Most people believe Japan’s attack was out of the blue. People think the war couldn’t have been avoided. People think the war was fought for righteous reasons. Here’s another take:
It was not Hitler’s attack on the Jews that brought the United States into WWII, any more than the enslavement of 4 million blacks brought Civil War in 1861. Italy’s attack on Ethiopia, Hitler’s invasion of Austria, his takeover of Czechoslovakia, his attack on Poland–none of those events caused the U.S. to enter the war, although Roosevelt did begin to send aid to England. What brought us fully into the war was the Japanese attack at Pearl Harbor. Surely it was not the humane concern for Japan’s bombing of civilians or Japan’s attack on China in 1937, her bombing of civilians at Nanking, had not brought the U.S. to war. It was the
Japanese attack on a link in the American Pacific Empire that did it.
So long as Japan shared the exploitation of China, the United States did not object. It had exchanged notes with Japan in 1917 saying “the Government of the United States recognizes that Japan has special interest in China.” It was when Japan threatened potential U.S. markets by its attempted takeover of China, but especially as it moved toward the tin, rubber, and oil of Southeast Asia, that the United States became alarmed and took those measures which led to the Japanese attack: a total embargo on scrap iron, a total embargo on oil in the summer of 1941.
Japan’s strike against us wasn’t sudden or unexpected. It was the last move in a long series of antagonistic acts from the United States.
Howard Zinn, A people’s History of the United States.
No argument there. But I think we may have drifted off of the topic of Obama and the illustration. Have we beaten it to death or does anyone have anything else to say abotu the New Yorker cover or the news surrounding it?
the bombs america drops in iraq and afghanistan are being felt around the world the economic noose is tightening and after seven years of fighting a war that can’t be won, we as a country have lost favor with nations that felt sorry for us after 9/11, what about the 70,000 chinese citizens that died 2 months ago, where is the endless news reporting there. we have anniversaries to remind us as a nation that we are alive. while other cultures in the world lay dying we ignore the truth for commerce and guilt… pump on fuck your suv dry up the resources leave nothing behind. rats in a maze go for the cheese. go for the cheese
good thoughts by everyone. i think we should debate the merits of non-capitalization of letters on blogs.
Okay, guess not. I’m out.
Only when breaking news hits or in an ironic headline. OUT!
Well, I just want to add this tidbit. I was thinking about this today as I walked my dogs. I remember seeing that fist bump when it first happened and thought that was very cool. It just seemed so damn REAL when so much of politics is fake. I may be reaching on this. Hell, it may have been a choreographed thing anyway, but I am not THAT cynical to really believe that.
Anyway, on my walk I reflected on how sad it is that this simple, improvised gesture has been warped into something else. Is this why politicians are so stiff? If you let down your guard and demonstrate some genuine human interaction and playfulness, it can be used against you? W…T…F?
What are people saying about the fist bump, anyway? How has it been warped in the media? I think its cool. Now my wife and I do it.
i was referring to the “terrorist fist-jab” thing. Certainly most folks see that as ridiculous, but i still cant get over that an attempt was made to warp it. Have you seen the Daily SHow’s take on it?
Now I have, and damned if Daily Show doesn’t hit it on the nose with:
“Barack Obama should in no way be upset about the cartoon that depicts him as a Muslim extremist, because you know who gets upset about cartoons? Muslim extremists.”
My final thought: it’s just a cartoon and what could have been an opportunity for the Obama campaign turned into a lot of pointless media hype.
Now I’m really out.
Leave your response!
Subscribe in a reader
Globatron Updates
Posting tweet...
Blogroll
Recent Comments
Archives
JaxCAL Radio
Find more music like this on JaxCAL SPACE
Recent Posts
Most Commented
Globatron.org
The alter ego of contemporary art.Chief Contributors Include:
Mark Creegan / Morrison Pierce / James Greene / Akbar Lightning / MonKevtheModern / Byron King (Founder)
A sounding board for developing contemporary art and culture founded in Jacksonville, Florida.